In 2015, Steve Saka realized a life-long dream. He
established Dunbarton Tobacco & Trust. His very own cigar company where he
could create cigars based on what he felt was right. Prior to achieving this
goal, Saka had established himself in the cigar world by creating the Liga
Privada blend while working for Drew Estate. Before jumping on board with Drew
Estate, Steve was an executive assistant for Lew Rothman (previous owner of JR
Cigars). Working for these two cigar industry heavyweights, Saka gained
immeasurable knowledge and experience that he leveraged to establish himself in
the business and create his company.
In five short years, Steve Saka has produced highly
regarded hits such as Sin Compromiso, Muestra de Saka, Mi Querida, Sobremesa,
Todos Las Dias, and Umbagog. Plus, he’s even had a Sasquatch named after him.
We were able to catch up with Steve for an interview as he
rolled cigar samples from his home in New Hampshire.
It appears you don’t put your name on your
cigars. Why is that?
There’s basically two lines of thinking in
this. The first is that you name everything with one name thereby identifying
with the owner. This makes it much easier to sell, and much easier to market.
You have brand “XYZ” and everything falls under this umbrella. And that’s great
when everything is doing well. But! When things start to soften up it also
hurts you because the brands are all tied together. Also, because I’m making
such distinct cigars and distinct experiences, I don’t think the person that’s
in love with Triqui Traca is going to be in love with Brulee. Those cigars are
just worlds apart. I’m a big believer in brands that are islands onto
themselves. The downside to that is that it takes a lot longer to grow them
because you don’t get that one unified brand recognition. But, at the same time
if a consumer smokes a Todos Las Dias and decides it sucks, it’s not going to
impact how he feels when he smokes a Mi Querida because they are such different
experiences. For consumers that are really keyed in and know who everybody is
and what they are doing, it doesn’t make a difference. They already know what
to expect when they smoke a Brulee versus a Triqui Traca. It’s really a brand
strategy thing. Let me say it this way, really small companies grow faster when
they are under one umbrella. Big companies stay big when they are under
separate umbrellas. We’ll see which way makes the most sense.
But Muestra de Saka has your name on it. Why?
I mean I love my name. Not too many people have it.
SAKA! It’s a loud name. It
has served me well. I don’t think it is necessarily
a romantic name for cigars. When I say Saka, it doesn’t make me feel the same
as when I say, Arturo Fuente you what I mean. That’s a pretty name instead of
saying, I’m Steve Saka. It doesn’t have the right ring or feel to it. Some
consumers would argue that it is because of that. It is why Rocky Patel stood
out. It was so different from what the norm was. So, I ended up doing Muestra
De Saka which has my name very prominently featured on the coffin. They are
eye-catching on retailer’s shelves, and they provide a vehicle to explain who
Saka is. I know a lot of retailers sell my cigars as Saka cigars, and that
means those retailers have already explained the story. The consumers know what
it means. But talk to me in ten or fifteen years. I don’t know if it was a good
decision or a bad decision.
It’s been said that you gave the factory manager
leeway in creating the Muestra De Saka. Can you elaborate on that?
Most Muestra De Saka cigars are personal challenges
to me. Like Exclusivo, I’m not a big fan of really aged tobacco so that line
has tobacco that has been aged a minimum of five years. Some of those tobaccos
have been aged for nine years at this point. I know that vintage tobacco is
supposed to be a big deal, but for me, I think that they go lifeless and dull.
So, the first challenge for me was to make a cigar out of those types of
tobaccos that I don’t normally like to work with. Nacatamale is one where it is
all from one single farm. One farm for the wrapper and binder, and one farm for
the filler. There are only two tobaccos in the Nacatamale. I was trying to make
one of those old farm style ligas [blends] using very limited ingredients. And
this is true of all. Every Muestra De Saka (MDS) is not only a personal
challenge to me, but it is also a challenge to [Raul Disla] the general manager
of NACSA [Nicaraguan American Cigars factory]. He has been making cigars for
decades for a lot of prestigious places. He’s never had his own brand or blend.
He’s always executing somebody else’s instructions. So, I said, “I want you to
make something for yourself … a personal blend.” The first question out of his
mouth was, “What do you want it to be?” And said, “You’re missing the whole point
here. I want it to be what you want good or bad.” He did it for about a year.
Then I started busting his chops. I told him, I’m some guy from New Hampshire
that has to come down here to show you how to do your job. The next time I went
down, he presented me with four blends one of which was the U blend. I think
the R blend was the most balanced the most refined. I think it was the best he
liked initially. Then, I said, why don’t we set that one aside and maybe one
day we’ll do something with it. The U one is kind of interesting. It is not a
very complex blend. It is kind of pepper forward, but it had a nice transition
in it. I said, what do you think if we do it for this year’s Muestra. No one
really knows who he [Disla] is outside of the real cigar geeks and people
inside the business. And, I said, “Why don’t we do this?”, and that’s what we
did. I called it Unstolen Valor because I’m in an industry where everybody
takes credit for things, they don’t deserve credit for. I wanted to show that I
had nothing to do with this blend. I basically picked it up off the table and I
said this is the one I’m interested in. But, if we wanted to make it a Muestra
De Saka, it had to have a Muestra De Saka Quality because MDS’s are like $15 to
$20 cigars. It had to be a super top tier cigar that was the only change I
made. I think it has done well.
Which Muestra de Saka do you prefer?
The most expensive Muestra is the Unicorn. But my
favorite one is the Nacatamale, which is the one with two tobaccos in it.
What can you tell us about the Sin Compromiso?
The Sin Compromiso is a medium cigar, but it is just
so smooth. It has a lot of flavor. It’s got a lot of chocolate, a lot of cream.
It is a full-bodied cigar. The only thing I would say about a Sin is that I
don’t think it smokes too well outside under a windy condition. I think with
this cigar you need to have the smoke swirling around your head. It is a more
nuanced smoking experience than some of my other cigars. I don’t think you will
get that much out of it when the conditions are adverse.
Are the Umbagogs hard to come by?
No. We are making like a gazillion of them. It is
just that we are selling them a lot faster than we can make them. It’s a good
problem. There are a lot of retailers who have them on backorder. However, I
think by February, I will be caught up on backorders.
How has the pandemic affected your sales?
Normally in December things slow down for us. For
retailers, normally things pick up. For us, sales typically stop around
December 7th to 10th. At that point, retailers have bought whatever it is they
were going to buy for Christmas. This year [2020] we are still banging. Here we
are on the 18th of December and selling just as much as we were two weeks ago.
That’s really surprising to me. It’s all pull-sales. Accounts are calling us
and saying, “I need this. I need that!” It has been a very strange year. We’ve
done incredibly well. That makes me think, are we doing really well because
people are stuck at home and smoking two to three cigars are day instead of two
or three cigars a week? Or is it because the brand is doing really good and we
would have had a better year if we had trade shows? I don’t know how to read
any of it. All I can do is try to keep up and be thankful for what there is.
Why do you think most cigar brands don’t stick
around for too long?
People come up with good cigars all the time. The
problem is that they don’t stay good. Look at Sobremesa. It was introduced five
years ago. Is it one of the hottest brands in the country? No! It’s not, but
year after year it continues to grow. It keeps getting more consumers, more
people buy it, more people add it to their rotation. This is really unusual in
today’s market. We are in a market where brands get created, and they get
discarded when the next new thing comes along. And there’s always a next new
thing. That’s a real challenge for us. You get rewarded for making consistent
cigars, but oddly enough the marketplace in the short term never rewards you
for that. It always punishes you. In the short-term consumers always want to
try what’s new. Consumers are always on the hunt. What you are hoping for is
that they eventually come back and try one of your cigars again and say, “Wow!
This is good.” I’m seeing more and more of that happen with us. The only way
you can achieve that is by being consistent. Products that are locked in,
dialed in, like Litto’s [Gomez of La Flor Dominicana] double ligero or the
Oliva V. They become classics because they remain consistent. In the handmade
cigar business that’s the hardest thing to do. You are trying to be consistent
in making a product that is inherently inconsistent. A handmade product made of
an organic material into something that is going to deliver a consistent
smoking experience to the consumer. That’s a really big challenge. The smaller
you are the more difficult it is for you to hope to do it. Even the big guys
aren’t always successful. I think that is the thing you really have to try to
focus on. It’s not the part that is sexy. It is not the part that gets you
quick and easy sales.
How do you think Social Media has impacted the
business?
I’ve always said that the most important rating is
the individual consumer that takes the time to snap a photo and give you a
shout-out. They have no commercial interest. I think the cigars and comments
people put up on social media in the end have more weight than anything else.
Do you find yourself wanting to change a blend?
This is the thing about Sin Compromiso. It got Cigar
of the Year in 2018 by Cigar Snob. It did really well. It was the Number 2
overall on the Half Wheel Consensus in 2018. I haven’t added anything to Sin in
the last three years. I’ve left it at the original five sizes. Most people
would take it and capitalize on it make a Sin this or a Sin that. In year three
or four there would be three more Sins. I decided to leave it alone because I
think it is such a nice blend. I just want to give it time to percolate. I
don’t want to hype it. I want consumers to come to it on their own. It is not
meant for the hardcore nicotine junkie. It is meant for the guy that likes a
Padron 1964 or the Andalusian Bull profile. The 2021 release is going to be the
little kiss of love that I give to the brand. There is another version of Sin I
made that is actually stronger. In 2021, I’m going to release a vitola that is
slightly stronger. I am curious to see how it will fare with some of the
hard-core nicotine junkie style bloggers. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter. I
think Sin is right just the way it is. I also think the slightly stronger
iteration is appealing too.
Have you ever gone back and tweaked or changed a
blend?
I like to have a blend finished. Then, I like to
come back and tinker with it. I spend so much time working on a blend. It is
seldom that
anything ends up on a shelf in less than two years in some cases it
is even longer. Sin Compromiso took four or five years from beginning to end.
From the first pilot crop which was Winter of 2013. After you’ve had it and it
is done, it is kind of nice to go back after a year and just go huh. Now that
you are removed from doing it, you look at it from the perspective of what’s on
the shelf and how it tastes. I can only age a cigar for so long. It is not the
same experience that a consumer is going to get after he buys a box that has
been on a retailer’s shelf for a year. I like to come back and play with
things. For the Sobremesa, I made the short Churchill, the Elegante en Cedros.
It is kind of what I did with Mi Querida. I came back and created the Triqui
Traca iteration of Mi Querida. Also, I like the tweak that was done on the
Sobremesa Blue which was done four years after the original creation of the
Brulee blend. I have a habit of coming back and playing and tweaking a blend. I
don’t know if they are improvements or not. However, I do tend to smoke more of
my tweaks. Except for the Mi Querida. I’m much more of Blue guy than a Red guy.
It is not a question of one being better than the other. In the case of the Mi
Querida the Blue is more chocolate. It has a more inherent sweetness, and the
spice is lighter. Whereas in the Triqui Traca the pepper is more forward. When
the pepper is more forward, what was chocolate is now more of a bitter
chocolate. It is two sides of the same coin. Although I prefer the Blue, there
are times when I want to smoke the Red and I prefer the 48 a lot. It is one of
my favorite ones. Whereas in the Sin, I like the larger formats like the 6 x 54
pressed and the number seven: the seven inches by 56. It really depends on the
blend. The Todos Las Dias for me is the thick Lonsdale. It is the perfect
representation of that blend. But! My friend Chris Duque, who I know maybe
watching because he’s crazy, he likes the half-Churchill, which to me is the
least palatable of the five sizes. I feel it gets to the end too quickly. It’s
too strong, too spicy, too sharp, too soon. I like a little more gentle ride
into it with a thick Lonsdale.
So, a bigger vitola for a stronger blend?
No. It all
depends on how it makes me feel. I like the little firecracker in the Triqui
Traca, but I hate the fact that it is three and a half inches long. I feel like
I’m smoking half a cigar. It gives you a tremendous amount of pop right out of
the gate. It is the strongest of them, but at the same time the experience for
me is too short.
What can you tell us about the U-Boat?
Raul [Disla] made the U blend that we use for
Unstolen Valor. The U Boat is my tweaking of that blend. It is my taking his
work and saying I think it will be better if we did this with it instead of
that with it. That’s essentially what U Boat is, but at the heart of it is
still Raul’s work with me just nibbling on the edges. I don’t know what the
future is for the U Boat in 2021. We had a lot of limited releases in 2020, and
I really don’t what to have so many in 2021. I think it gives a very false
sense as where you are as a company. I was very blessed with [limited releases]
in 2020. Every single one of them sold out. I think the worst one of them sold
out in five days. The best one sold out in like forty minutes.
What do you think will happen in 2021 as far as
any new releases?
I have a plan for 2021. I’m behind the eight ball
already because of the COVID scenario. I haven’t been able to travel back and
forth to Nicaragua like I normally do. My first trip back to Nicaragua will be
in January of ’21. For consumers, 2021 is going to be an incredible year. I
think there will be so many new cigars that will be introduced in the
marketplace. It’s going to be impossible for you to even try one-tenth of them.
I just think there is going to be an avalanche of stuff.
What are you working on for 2021?
For me, there really has been no development going
on. I’ve actually been working on a cigar project on my dining room table here
in New Hampshire for the last four months. I’ve been making samples to try in
preparation for my trip in January. Can that be done by summer? I don’t know.
You don’t want to make any promises.
Yeah. I’m pretty much like 90 percent there working
from my table here in New Hampshire, but it is not the same thing as being [in
Nicaragua]. It’s one thing for them to ship sample tobaccos, but it is not the
same as looking at all the bales and the pilones and checking everything. The
way I make a cigar myself is not anywhere as good as the way they make them.
What I think is right proportionally may not work once they start doing the
“voodoo” that they do. I will have to tweak the blend a little bit. I don’t
roll a cigar very well. Using my samples as a baseline is a terrible idea.
Ultimately, I have to work with what the consumer is actually going to smoke.
It is a problem the smaller guys encounter. When they get samples made in the
factory, they are often made by some of the best torcedores [rollers] in the
factory. Those are people that make the muestras [samples]. The problem is that
they are not the same people that are going to be making the cigars the
consumer is going to smoke. Once you get a blend finalized, you need to put it
in production with real pairs [a team of bunchers and rollers] that are going
to work on it every day. Chances are you are going to have to adjust the blend
once it goes into actual manufacturing. Some of the things you want to be
precise may not be as precise on the production floor. If something is a real
problem, you need to re-think it to see how you can make it possible. We use
the best pairs in the factory, but they are not the same as the master pairs
that made the samples. These things need to be taken into consideration.
Another thing you need to take into consideration is that cigars never taste
the same in the factory environment as they do when people smoke them at home.
Humidity makes a difference, elevation makes a difference, temperature makes a
difference. Cigars taste differently in Esteli than they do here. There are a
lot of things that we have no control over that impact consumers experience.
You have to take into consideration as many things as possible to try to
deliver something consistent.
Someone mentioned that the U Boat is a creamier
version of the Unstolen Valor.
I feel that the Unstolen Valor is a very pepper
centric cigar. It starts off as a soft pepper, and then it builds in spice as
you smoke it. While I feel it is an enjoyable cigar, I don’t feel it is one of
the more complex cigars. I feel that by softening some of the notes it lets
some of the other flavors come out. That’s what the U Boat is. It is taming it
back a little.
What is your goal when creating a cigar?
When I smoke a cigar, I want it to leave me kind of
sated. I want it to leave me wanting more. One my mentors was a gentleman
named
Estelo Padron. He was the brother of the famous Jose O. Padron. Estelo was the
lesser-known brother but who was also a very talented cigar man. He ran the
Villazon factory before General [Cigar Co] bought them. He was the maker of all
the Punch and Hoya de Monterrey back in the day. I was spending a week with
him. He was showing me how to ferment broadleaf. He said, “Always remember!
This is the most important thing when you create a cigar.” He starts pounding
on his chest really fast. Being the newbie that I was I said, “passion, heart.”
He said, F*@! passion. No! What I want is that when they are smoking this cigar
and they are getting close to the end that they are checking their pocket to
make sure they have another cigar. That’s what’s important!” I have always
carried that with me. You want a cigar that is so good that you want another
one right away.
How long do you think it takes to refine your
palate? Do you think it depends on the number of cigars you smoke? Or number of
years you have spent smoking?
Yes, to all. I would say it probably took me twenty
years before I really settled in. Dialed in on what I really like and dislike.
It took quite a while and having to smoke a lot of cigars. I’m at a point right
now where I must’ve smoked about 100,000 handmade cigars. Early on, your tastes
are going to change dramatically as to what you like and don’t like
particularly in those first five to seven years. I think a lot consumers end up
buying a lot of cigars that they end up regretting. Most consumers ride the
mild to strong wave up the chain. At some point they end up on the dark end of
the spectrum and smoking really head-banging uber strong cigars and loving it.
Then, within three to four years they find themselves starting to dial back a
little. They come to the realization that they have been trading strength for
flavor. Also, to get a really good sense as to what you like you have to play
with the vitolas, because the shape of the cigar really makes a significant
difference. I think getting locked into a particular size is a mistake for the
consumer.
Is there a particular cigar size you would
recommend a new cigar smoker to start with?
For new cigar smokers, I think they should start
with a toro. It smokes cooler. It has a little wider ring gauge. It is a little
softer on the palette. Also, if you’re
looking to get your spouse or a friend into smoking cigars, I think you should
pick something you like. Maybe something a little on the milder end.
If you could go back in time to a younger Steve
Saka and tell yourself one tip that would help you succeed faster or better in
the long run, what would it be?
It’s a hard question. From a sheer dollar point of
view, I would have told Steve Saka of 2013 that he was an idiot to leave Drew
Estate because that was a very nice paycheck I was getting. It is certainly one
I have not recreated seven years later. From a big picture point of view, I
think it would be trusting myself, and not really caring about anyone else’s
opinion. In the end, I’m going to have live and die by the decision whether a
blend is good or bad, sells or doesn’t sell. Focus on what I want to do, which
is where I’m at now. I wonder if I had done that in the mid-nineties would I
have ultimately gone with JR? Would I have gone to Drew Estate? Could I have started
this company back then? Back when I was twenty-five years younger with more
energy, more enthusiasm, more everything. I was smarter when I started. Now I’m
wiser but my brain is not as sharp today as it was twenty-five years ago. I
kind of wonder if I had started a small family company back then. But then
again, there is a tremendous amount of benefit and education I got out of going
through my experiences with JR and Drew Estate. Those are the types of
experiences that people in our industry have. I think being more confident in
myself back then would have been the thing.
How do you think your company Dunbarton Tobacco
& Trust is doing?
I like where we are headed as a small young
company. It is a lot more work than I
think most people realize. You cannot mistake social media success with actual
success. While we have been blessed, and we are doing well, I don’t think we
are doing as well as a lot of people think we’re doing.
What tip would you give a cigar company that is
just starting out and struggling to push their brand?
“Don’t do it,” but that sounds very
anti-competitive. The reality of our business is that it is not a sexy
business. It is a real blue collar grind it out kind of business. We are making
a luxury product, but in the end, it is a commodity. It is meant to be consumed
and re-purchased and consumed. I think people who are just getting into it don’t
typically grasp how difficult it is. Even companies that consumers see as being
successful are really on the verge of bankruptcy. It is just that tough. We are
five years into DTT [Dunbarton Tobacco & Trust] and I think we are very
successful, yet my current salary is $24,000 a year, and I get that only to get
the company health insurance. I’m still not making a real paycheck out of a
company that has been as successful as we have been. We have a lot of
advantages. We have pedigrees and relationships. We do a lot of business with
great customers like yourself at Neptune. For a lot of people on my end, they
think getting into Neptune is a big deal. The reality is getting into the big
accounts really hurts you. Your product really needs pull. You have to focus on
the little stores to build interest and desire for your product. People think,
“I got into Smoke Inn, Corona, Cigars International” instantly it is going to
start raining cash and that is not at all what happens. It is a much longer
grind it out process. I’m not saying people going into it are not going to be
successful. They have to go into it with the understanding that that’s what it
is going to take. It is a much longer
row to hoe than most people can comprehend. They have to think in terms of “I
have to plan on losing money, and how do I control how much money I’m going to
lose. Also, how am I going to personally survive the beginning years of this
company.” It is really hard to put in the effort and be enthusiastic about
something that has very little return after a couple of years. Can you be
successful? Absolutely! During the cigar boom in the mid-nineties, we had
nearly 2,000 cigar companies in the marketplace. Of those 2,000, how many made
it to the other side? Rocky Patel, Alec Bradley, Drew Estate. If you start
thinking about it, I don’t think you are going to come up with 20 that actually
made it. You have some exceptions. Litto Gomez was there before the boom but he
took off during the boom. And that was in an environment that was the best
environment ever. Retailers were buying anything because they couldn’t get what
they wanted or what they needed. I don’t think that’s the way it is now. Right
now, the marketplace is highly competitive. I think retailers are much more
selective about what they choose to carry. On the plus side, because of social
media, it is much easier to get the word out, so that’s a huge advantage that
20 years ago we didn’t have. But it is also a disadvantage too, because when
something sucks the whole world knows about it pretty quickly. If someone was
going to go into the business, I think they need to have very realistic
expectations. They are going to be successful, but it is going to take five to
ten years of really hard grind, and you really have to find a way not to go
bankrupt in those beginning years, survive so you can get to the next step.
Typically, in our industry, an overnight success is at the ten-year mark.
What’s the story behind the Sakasquatch?
When I worked at JR Cigars, I used to drive there. I
never moved to New Jersey. I still lived in New Hampshire. One day I was in my truck heading back home to New Hampshire, and I realized that I had left my
cigars at my desk, and I was already 45 minutes away. I can’t drive without
smoking a cigar. It is like a seatbelt for me. I checked on my phone and found
the closest cigar store and popped inside with the intention of buying four or
five cigars to get me through my five-hour drive. When I walked in the retailer
just looked at me and said, “Whoa! Steve Saka is in my cigar store. It is like
seeing a Sasquatch.” I don’t really spend a lot of time in cigar stores. When I
was an executive with JR, I rarely spent any time in stores. I bought a few
cigars and started talking to some of the regulars of the lounge and wound up
spending an hour and a half. Then, I got back in my truck and drove to New
Hampshire. Then I started once a month stopping at that store and smoked a
cigar with those guys on a Friday afternoon and they just started calling me,
“Sakasquatch.” A rare Saka sighting and that’s where it came from. I never
really used the nickname. It was just at that one store. Then four years ago, I
have a good friend, Jerry Smith, who makes a lot of cheap things out of China
calls me. One of the things he makes are bobbleheads for Major League Baseball.
One day he calls me, and he said he needed a picture of my head one straight
and one from each side. I’m like why do you need a picture of my head? He said,
“it is something I’m working on.” And I said, “what are you working on that you
need a picture of my head?” He said, “it’s a gift. I want to make a custom
cigar-smoking bobblehead of you.” And I said, “I don’t want a bobblehead of
me.” And he was like, “I’m trying to give you a gift. I’m trying to do
something nice and you are being difficult.” And I said, “I don’t want a
bobblehead, but do you think they can make a sasquatch smoking a cigar?” And he
said, “I can ask them.” And that’s what they did. They made one, and it was a
gift I received from Jerry. When he gave it to me, and I held it, I said, “This
turned out really cool.” So, we set it at the bar. We were at Famous Smoke Shop
at the time. The owner from Famous came in, he saw it, picked it up and started
laughing, and he said, “this is brilliant. How do I get these?” And that’s how
it started.
Image Sources:
Images added on March 11, 2021.
In order of appearance from top to bottom:
Steve Saka, www.dunbartoncigars.com, https://www.dunbartoncigars.com/views, Accessed on March 11, 2021
Raul Disla, www.excelsiortobacco.com, https://excelsiortobacco.com/our-team/, Accessed on March 11, 2021
Estelo Padron, www.cigaraficionado.com, https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/cigar-veteran-estelo-padron-87-dies-17995, Accessed on March 11, 2021
Published January 10, 2021
Updated on March 11, 2021